Engleski kutak: Improve your English — Chat II (English only)

[goldentip]

Here's a nice article that spells out the differences between American and British English. http://www.onestopenglish.com/gramma...152820.article.
In Croatia we are consistently taught British English and American English is treated as inferior and unacceptable. If you have a test in English grammar in a school in Croatia and you do not use the present perfect tense with already - e.g. Are they going to the show tonight?
B: No. They already saw it. - you are going to get a very bad mark. While if you did the same test on Harvard you would get a good mark. So, why doesn't the educational establishment in Croatia accept the fact of the equal correctness of American English and stop stupidly glorifying BE as correct and AE as incorrect.

[Emericzy]

goldentip kaže:

Here's a nice article that spells out the differences between American and British English. http://www.onestopenglish.com/gramma...152820.article.
In Croatia we are consistently taught British English and American English is treated as inferior and unacceptable. If you have a test in English grammar in a school in Croatia and you do not use the present perfect tense with already - e.g. Are they going to the show tonight?
B: No. They already saw it. - you are going to get a very bad mark. While if you did the same test on Harvard you would get a good mark. So, why doesn't the educational establishment in Croatia accept the fact of the equal correctness of American English and stop stupidly glorifying BE as correct and AE as incorrect.

Simply. Because they teach British English. It is not a glorification; it is simply specified in the curriculum. As far as I know, it is the standard version of English for the entire EU.

What's your problem with it? I can see no downside to the choice. In the UK and the Commonwealth it will be a big plus. In the US it won't hurt. So, why not?

[goldentip]

It is of no practical use to stress British English as proper and American as a form of almost "broken" English. An old-fashioned tradition stemming from the neocolonial times during the '50s and the '60s when the bulk of English teachers in Croatia were educated who then educated subsequent generations of English teachers in Croatia. The skills of an average English teacher in Croatia are far from C1 or C2 level, haha, they are at best at B2 level - upper intermediate, the majority of them. How can a grammar school English teacher not know what perishable means, what is a tile, and so on? It is deplorable, yet that's what we have in our schools.

[Emericzy]

Take an aspirin and a lot of tea with lemon juce. You'll feel better.

[Woden]

goldentip kaže:

It is of no practical use to stress British English as proper and American as a form of almost "broken" English.

There is only one English language. All others are bad copies.

An old-fashioned tradition stemming from the neocolonial times during the '50s and the '60s when the bulk of English teachers in Croatia were educated who then educated subsequent generations of English teachers in Croatia. The skills of an average English teacher in Croatia are far from C1 or C2 level, haha, they are at best at B2 level - upper intermediate, the majority of them.

They don't need to have university education (even though it is required by job advertisers) to teach the English language to a higher standards in primary and secondary schools. At the universities it may be required that professors have a sufficient education.


But, it is much more important that teachers, students and actually all citizens of the democratic Republic of Croatia are able to speak fluently the proper Croatian language.

You see until recently the Serbo Croatian language was a compulsory language in schools and in everyday life. For centuries on end this mixture of gibberish degraded our beautiful native language.

So there should be more focus on the Croatia language itself.

How can a grammar school English teacher not know what perishable means, what is a tile, and so on? It is deplorable, yet that's what we have in our schools.

It is deplorable, but how do you know of this. Have you got any specific stories to tell?

[Woden]

They killed Boris Nemtsov.

[goldentip]

Woden kaže:

There is only one English language. All others are bad copies.


They don't need to have university education (even though it is required by job advertisers) to teach the English language to a higher standards in primary and secondary schools. At the universities it may be required that professors have a sufficient education.


But, it is much more important that teachers, students and actually all citizens of the democratic Republic of Croatia are able to speak fluently the proper Croatian language.

You see until recently the Serbo Croatian language was a compulsory language in schools and in everyday life. For centuries on end this mixture of gibberish degraded our beautiful native language.

So there should be more focus on the Croatia language itself.




It is deplorable, but how do you know of this. Have you got any specific stories to tell?

No, teachers in secondary schools must hold a university degree in English, as well as for teaching in primary schools. I for a fact happen to know that dozens of my former high peers hold university degrees in English, and Italian, or German and teach in primary schools, as well as in secondary schools. The possibility of letting somebody to teach English in lower grades of primary schools without holding a degree happens rarely and only in case if there is no qualified teacher available.

[Broj e]

antilles kaže:

to put it bluntly: doesn't make sense at all.

Let me tell you something.

A principle.

Copernican principle!

Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people.

Carl Sagan
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...gan122799.html

Is it truth?

The truth?

[antilles]

goldentip kaže:

....
B: No. They already saw it. - you are going to get a very bad mark. While if you did the same test on Harvard you would get a good mark. So, why doesn't the educational establishment in Croatia accept the fact of the equal correctness of American English and stop stupidly glorifying BE as correct and AE as incorrect.

what test at harvard are you referring to?
maths, macroeconomics 101 ?

but if you're referring to the harvard english placement test, the only thing you can get for "already saw it" is a negative point.

[goldentip]

antilles kaže:

what test at harvard are you referring to?
maths, macroeconomics 101 ?

but if you're referring to the harvard english placement test, the only thing you can get for "already saw it" is a negative point.

you are totally wrong. " already saw it " - is standard american english and thus correct. check these websites..

http://esl.about.com/od/toeflieltsca...dif_ambrit.htm


http://learnenglish.britishcouncil.o...erican-english

[DelmatST]

goldentip kaže:

It is of no practical use to stress British English as proper and American as a form of almost "broken" English. An old-fashioned tradition stemming from the neocolonial times during the '50s and the '60s when the bulk of English teachers in Croatia were educated who then educated subsequent generations of English teachers in Croatia. The skills of an average English teacher in Croatia are far from C1 or C2 level, haha, they are at best at B2 level - upper intermediate, the majority of them. How can a grammar school English teacher not know what perishable means, what is a tile, and so on? It is deplorable, yet that's what we have in our schools.

Years ago I would have agreed with you but today I have different view.
British English all the way!

Woden kaže:

They killed Boris Nemtsov.

You bastards!

[slafko]

Emericzy kaže:

Take an aspirin and a lot of tea with lemon juce. You'll feel better.

Wouldn't a pill be a more suitable recommendation to someone that advocates American English? I mean, considering the American love of pills and all ...

[Emericzy]

slafko kaže:

Wouldn't a pill be a more suitable recommendation to someone that advocates American English? I mean, considering the American love of pills and all ...

[goldentip]

To an average educated American it sounds really silly that Croatians can advocate British or American English. The British do not think that BE is better or more correct than AE. It is a widespread attitude of the Croatian academic anglophiles who influenced generations of teachers and students alike that BE is superior to AE.

[Emericzy]

goldentip kaže:

The British do not think that BE is better or more correct than AE.

You think.

[goldentip]

Emericzy kaže:

You think.

I don't think so, that is the attitude of the English language teaching in Croatia.

[Emericzy]

goldentip kaže:

I don't think so, that is the attitude of the English language teaching in Croatia.

You must have spoken to very few Englishmen on this issue, especially to professors of English.

[Fanhp]

Hi!
I like reading books in English, but I have this problem - when I'm reading, I always find new strange words I don't understand. So, does anyone have a recommendation for a useful English-English or English-Croatian dictionary I could buy? Or maybe some book for upgrading knowledge because I haven't really learned anything since highschool and English course at faculty is a child's play.

[Emericzy]

Fanhp kaže:

Hi!
I like reading books in English, but I have this problem - when I'm reading, I always find new strange words I don't understand. So, does anyone have a recommendation for a useful English-English or English-Croatian dictionary I could buy? Or maybe some book for upgrading knowledge because I haven't really learned anything since highschool and English course at faculty is a child's play.

Run away from dictionaries. They are more of an enemy than a friend. Read with partial understanding. Try to understand from context. The third time you run into a word you'll be getting an idea what it might mean. The fiftieth time, you'll understand it better than a dictionary does.

Reading with a dictionary is like an inexperienced person having a sex with a sex manual and looking for instructions every time he/she doesn't quite know what to do next. It just doesn't work.

Look up a word you don't know only when you are utterly and completely lost. When it happens, Google will often be better than a print dictionary.

[goldentip]

Fanhp kaže:

Hi!
I like reading books in English, but I have this problem - when I'm reading, I always find new strange words I don't understand. So, does anyone have a recommendation for a useful English-English or English-Croatian dictionary I could buy? Or maybe some book for upgrading knowledge because I haven't really learned anything since highschool and English course at faculty is a child's play.

If you read a book, and in the text you encounter "recondite" for example. Keep re-reading the sentence - maybe you'll get the meaning from the context, maybe you won't. Any dictionary is better than trying to get the meaning by yourself and getting it wrong.
At the end you might form your own wrong meaning of words because the process of memorizing and creating meanings when learning a language is a recondite process. Now, can you get the meaning of recondite from the context